from.
>> Thank you to Fred there.
You told us that it was going to
happen and that is exactly what
happened in the speech.
President Putin not backing down
in fact being more aggressive.
Let’s go now to Clarissa ward
who is in Ukraine for us in
Kyiv.
Obviously this speech was had
and I’m sure it was being
watched by the leadership there
in Ukraine.
What are you hearing from them?
>> Reporter: We’ve only heard
reaction from one senior adviser
to the presidency, but I’m sure
it reflects the general thinking
in the leadership here.
He said Putin demonstrated
irrelevance and confusion
because everywhere there are
Nazis, martians and conspiracy
theories.
Really referring there to this
kind of alternate reality that
Putin appears to be presenting.
He accused the Ukrainian
government of being responsible
for destroying the economy,
destroying the lives of its
citizens.
He accused them of being
responsible for starting the
war.
He accused them of paying more
attention to the interests of
the west than to the interests
of their own Ukrainian people.
Really reflecting a sort of
startling take on the actual
events that we have seen
transpire on the ground in the
last year.
He said, quote, talking about
the Ukrainian government again,
they unleashed the war and we
continue to use force to stop
it.
This kind of thinking, this sort
of alternative reality,
I think
really underscores why it is
that the Ukrainian government
has shown such reluctance to sit
down at the negotiating table
with Vladimir Putin or with his
emissaries and try to hash out
some kind of a political
situation.
Because at this stage, it is
clear that there is such a
discrepancy in understanding and
perspective on the war, and
there is such a complete lack of
respect for truth and for facts
that the Ukrainians just don’t
believe there is any prospect of
being able to take Russia at its
word even if it were to offer a
moreciliatory approach.
But I do think it is fair to say
that the leadership will be
offering this as classic
evidence for why a political
solution is just not feasible at
the moment.
>> And that is the problem with
lies.
Clarissa, thank you so much.
When you hear stuff like that
from Putin, you can see why the
Ukrainians say he’s not dealing
in reality.
>> Yeah, and it was a lengthy
speech from Putin.
President Biden was likely not
watching it, but he will be
updated.
Let’s bring in David Sanger,
correspondent for the “New York
Times.”
So good to have you here in
Poland with us.
You were listening to Putin’s
speech as I was and you heard
him saying that they are
suspending participation in that
nuclear arms treaty.
What does that say to you?
>> What a remarkable two days to
have the president in Kyiv
yesterday, here today, and here
Vladimir Putin a year into this
with a narrative that still is
living in sort of his own head
here.
As Jake Sullivan, national
security adviser, put it to us
earlier today, if the Russians
pulled out of the war today, the
war would stop.
If the Ukrainians pulled out of
the war today, Ukraine would
just be absorbed into Russia.
>> Pushing back on what Putin
has said that this is because of
the west.
>> That’s right, that somehow
the west threatened it.
And new S.T.A.R.T. Is the last
remaining arms control treaty
between the United States and
Russia.
It covers the biggest weapons,
the strategic weapons that go
on, icbms that could it will the
United States or other
countries, or it could hit
Russia.
And under that treaty, both
sides are supposed to be able to
inspect the other to make sure
that they are complying with the
number of warheads that they
could have, the deployment of
extra strategic missiles and so
forth.
Those inspections haven’t
happened in the past few years.
First because of covid, and then
because the Russians would not
allow the inspectors back in.
What he has done now has said
I’m done with participating in
this inspection thing.
What he didn’t say was that he
is going to build more weapons
beyond the 1550 that are
allowed.
Now, the whole treaty expires in
early 2026.
And one of the big questions is,
is this a Vladimir Putin who is
even interested in having a
follow-on treaty.
>> David, you wrote last night
that these vastly different
world views that we’re seeing on
the world stage today between
what Putin just said and what
the president will say shows,
quote, echos of what president
Biden wanted to replay.
The difference of course is the
China factor, right?
>> That’s right.
The China factor is a big
element to this because in the
cold war, it was basically
between the United States and
the soviet union.
Now we have a much larger third
player.
And that makes this a lot more
complicated.
It is also a player on whom we
are dependent for technology,
for a lot of trade.
We were never in the cold war
dependent on the soviet union
for key technologies.
Every apple iPhone that you pick
up is made — or just about
every one — is made in China.
Think about that.
Almost everything that you see
at Walmart or much of what you
see is made in China.
And so this is a much more
complicated dynamic.
And that is why it is
particularly important that
we’re seeing the top foreign
affairs official in China in
Moscow today meeting we think
with president Putin, certainly
with other Russian officials,
while the president is here
giving his speech.
>> And it was notable that just
yesterday president zelenskyy
told a German newspaper
essentially if China does
provide lethal aid to Russia,
we’ll have a World War.
>> And that has been the big
concern here because we’re
talking about nuclear powers now
and World War.
I to do want to ask you, David,
you talked about the importance
of China and where Russia stands
and we’re all connected whether
we like it or not.
I’m wondering about what you
think the possibilities are for
Ukraine, assuming let’s say that
Ukraine ends up keeping its
territory, can they join the eu,
will they be given a position
for example in nato?
Do you think that that is a
possibility after all that has
happened now in this scenario?
>> There is a big argument about
whether this would be a wise
time to let Ukraine into nato or
not.
Think about this, Ukraine is at
war.
If it became a member of nato
tomorrow, nato would be obliged
to enter that war directly.
So far it has been indirect.
The United States, nato
countries have been providing
arms, they have been providing
intelligence, but they haven’t
been providing actual human
forces.
And president Biden has made it
pretty clear that while he wants
to support Ukraine, he does not
want to risk World War III as he
puts it to his staff and that
means no direct conflict with
the Russians.
That would end if they entered
nato.
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